{"id":3026,"date":"2021-11-10T13:03:38","date_gmt":"2021-11-10T12:03:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/old.outra.pt\/?p=3026"},"modified":"2021-11-10T13:04:54","modified_gmt":"2021-11-10T12:04:54","slug":"entrevista-a-vasco-alves-out-fest-2021","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/old.outra.pt\/en_us\/2021\/11\/entrevista-a-vasco-alves-out-fest-2021\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Vasco Alves (OUT.FEST 2021)"},"content":{"rendered":"

In the week prior to the start of the October moment of OUT.FEST 2021, we had the chance to talk to Vasco Alves - bagpiper for 'Os Belenenses' football club, member of VA AA LR and heroic investigator of acoustical phenomena and the materiality of sound, whose trajectory's been discreet but continuously fascinating, resorting to numerous sound sources and methodologies including synthesis and amplification techniques, tape recorders, signal processing and \u2013 more recently \u2013 bagpipes.<\/p>\n

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Can you tell me a bit about your experience with the bagpipes? How did you start playing them and how did your relationship with the instrument develop over time?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I started learning the bagpipes in 2014, at the Lisbon Galician Centre, and during the first years I had a traditional learning experience, but I always wanted to use the instrument in a less conventional, more exploratory way, closer to the themes I\u2019m interested in, and that\u2019s something I was only able to do a few years after I started playing the bagpipes. I think it was about three years ago, maybe in 2018, I started preparing a few pieces which, although they also include some electronic material, work on acoustic phenomena and psychoacoustics above all. I always try to explore some kind of effect within that field.<\/p>\n

And what drove you to this instrument specifically? Because in 2014 you were already active in making music, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, I had been playing for quite some time by then...I had two experiences which were somewhat surprising, so much so that when they occurred I didn\u2019t even imagine I\u2019d be learning an instrument one day. One was a concert by Paul Dunmall in London - he\u2019s more associated with jazz and even improv as a saxophone player, but he has a personal collection of bagpipes from around the world. Me and a friend invited him to play at a concert we were organizing when I lived there, and he did a performance where he played with several bagpipes throughout, and there were some amazing moments in there that I wasn\u2019t expecting, even in terms of the sound material...when the bagpipes were amplified, if you closed your eyes you could imagine it was a laptop concert, a computer music concert...well, there were some really surprising elements, and then when I returned to Portugal in 2014, I ended up attending one or two concerts where the instrument was also used, although outside this context, but then I decided to learn it, in a somewhat spontaneous way. And that was it, I liked it and kept doing it and at this point it\u2019s possibly the instrument I work with the most, even though I also explore similar themes when I work with electronics.<\/p>\n

On that topic, when did you become interested in electroacoustic music? Was there a specific moment when you discovered that kind of music and thought that was what you wanted to explore?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know if I can name a specific moment, I think that it\u2019s probably related to the music I heard during my adolescence, which led me to have some interest in exploring, in following the more exploratory path in music, the less conventional one, so to speak. And in my university years, if I\u2019m not mistaken, I learned how to make some contact microphones and some other small things (I think my first recordings were with that material actually, even if they were done in a very na\u00efve and intuitive way), and well, things evolved from there, I kept being interested in instrument building, in exploring materials\u2026Obviously, the things I\u2019m interested in nowadays aren\u2019t necessarily the ones I was interested in at the time, but it\u2019s been evolving, going through several phases, although I think there\u2019s something that unites them.<\/p>\n

So what was the music you heard as a teenager that led you in that direction?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well\u2026in my early teens I listened to a lot of Sonic Youth (and all the musical scene they were a part of), that\u2019s possibly one of the first times I saw instruments being used in a less conventional way. And going back to your previous question, there was actually a moment when I discovered Christian Marclay\u2019s work, I saw one of his exhibits as well as some concerts and tapes, and I think that moment marked me somehow, also because of the way he used the materials and the sound that was generated by the things he built, the processes he explored and which were part of his pieces, all of those were very influential to me at the time. Soon after I discovered the great master, Alvin Lucier. There are many other things which have influenced me since, like the work of Rafael Toral, and Sei Miguel\u2026But well, it becomes difficult to name specific influences, since I\u2019ve been influenced by so many things.<\/p>\n

The relationship I see between all of those musicians is in part related to what Eddie Pr\u00e9vost says and tries to teach others, which is to see an instrument as something to play \u201coutside the box\u201d, that you should be something of an explorer and improviser with instruments. On your website I saw the radio you played, and it looked familiar \u2013 were you at Eddie Pr\u00e9vost\u2019s workshop [at OUT.FEST 2015]?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah, I also used to take that radio to the workshops he organized in London, which were a weekly improvisation meet-up, every Friday night in a church basement, where everyone could show up and join, and for about two years I went there regularly, so that\u2019s why I also participated in the Barreiro workshop that OUT.RA organized.<\/p>\n

And what did you learn from those workshops? How did they help you develop your work?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I think those workshops had quite the impact on me at the time, but nowadays I don\u2019t feel as close to or interested in free improvisation, which is basically what Eddie Pr\u00e9vost is focused on. Those workshops were an amazing thing for me at the time, both on a personal and social level, there was a dynamic which to me was new and quite exciting, the way the workshops took place and how people played there\u2026 there were small rules, but there was a lot of openness and fluidity and no-one ever told you what you should or should not do, and that fascinated me for a while. Meanwhile I think it lost a bit of\u2026I don\u2019t know if I became less na\u00efve about that idea, or if I simply became more interested in other ways, other things\u2026but I also experienced some incredible moments, there, with really great musicians, and I think that at a certain point, towards the end of the time I participated in those workshops, I would go there more to watch one or two people (like Seymour Wright) whose work I was interested in and fascinated by, and the five or ten minutes I\u2019d hear them play would make the hours I\u2019d spend there worth it\u2026<\/p>\n

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You were saying that your interests started to change \u2013 can you tell me which part of music interests you the most right now?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well, about free improvisation: I think that\u2019s not the core of what I\u2019m interested in nowadays. My work, be it electronic or acoustic, always involved a lot of volatility and so improvisation is still very important to me, but I like to work on themes, be them things that came from working with an instrument (in the wider sense), from the \u201clife\u201d that volatility and instability can generate, but also spatial themes, of the connection between the instrument and the space, and trying to somehow find a way to create work which fits in this context. Improvisation is obviously always present, because I have structures but I don\u2019t define what I do exactly, there\u2019s space for me to react to things in the way that seems the most appropriate in the moment. The bagpipes themselves, being such a rough, primitive instrument in a way, and maybe the instrument\u2019s limitations themselves, I think they\u2019re a good way to explore this kind of ideas, because in a way I feel like that simplicity and rawness then allow others parts to come to the fore, to have some importance, be heard and perceptible, and the bagpipes end up being the trigger for those events, in a sense\u2026 trigger<\/em> para esses eventos….<\/p>\n

That brings me to another question \u2013 I notice that in your music, especially your most recent work, there\u2019s a certain duality, between folklore, some very primordial stuff, and a more technologic and machine-like angle. I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s something you agree with\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

It\u2019s certainly not intentional. The tools I use often tend to define what I do. The bagpipes fell into my lap so to speak, like other things I\u2019ve been using, and my perspective has been more like: \u201cWhat can I do with this instrument, what does it give me, how can I apply it to what I\u2019m interested in doing sonically?\u201d In the concert I\u2019ll be presenting at OUT.FEST, the computer is simply generating a frequency, a sawtooth wave, which has a very similar sound to the bagpipes, it ends up being almost like a second player, which then generates this clash of frequencies\u2026It\u2019s a bit hard to define, but like I mentioned I\u2019m interested in exploring instabilities in the processes and mechanisms I build, and I try to do it with the bagpipes as well. But like I said it\u2019s not a conscious decision, I like to work with rawness, I\u2019m interested in a certain dryness in things and materials, and I move towards musical construction from there, to develop the work I do, but in fact, to me these are all things that fit mentally in the same place: to use the bagpipes or a synthesizer or a circuit I built or a radio, the ends to me are the same, there is no concept behind that.<\/p>\n

You use the instruments because you really like their sound\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, and because I\u2019m interested in the rawness and brutality of things like white noise, or the sound of the bagpipes, which is also quite simple, in the simplicity in working with electronics, I\u2019m really fond of all this\u2026let\u2019s say that the notion of economy, of doing a lot with meagre means is something I\u2019m really interested in and that I strive for in the processes and things I create.<\/p>\n

I wanted to ask you about the work you\u2019ll be presenting at OUT.FEST, \u201cGaita Contra Computador\u201d (\u201cPipes vs Computer\u201d). The title calls to mind the idea of opposition, of combat, almost\u2026You mentioned there\u2019s a computer tone that\u2019s really close to that of the bagpipes, can you tell us a bit more about that work of yours?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cGaita Contra Computador\u201d is the title of a CD I released last year, and yes, the work is based on the creation of a few pieces which are relatively short, some of which influenced the name of the album and which involve the bagpipes used without amplification in a space, while the computer is generating a frequency I programmed which generates tones that are very similar to those of the bagpipes, and the idea is that when frequencies cross in the space they create a some acoustic effects (like pulses, for instance)\u2026My intention is to give listeners an impression that there\u2019s a new sound emerging at a certain point, an union between the two sounds where eventually you stop being able to distinguish one from the other\u2026but overall I\u2019m interested in knowing how sounds cross in the space, it\u2019s like I have another person playing with me there, but when you explore frequencies which are very, very close and you move around in the space there are small effects that come to being, in the acoustic space in this case, the concert venue.<\/p>\n

Then I might present some acoustic pieces as well, without the computer, where I explore the bagpipes and their physical limits, I try to pull the pick to sound registers which aren\u2019t exactly the ones the instrument is meant to reach, looking for flaws and exploring those flaws and that instability. Then there\u2019s another piece which involves adding a tube to the bagpipes and pointing that frequency to a few jars on the ground, and explore the jars\u2019 resonating frequency \u2013 when you bring the sound of the bagpipes closed to the jars a new frequency emerges, and it\u2019s a piece focused on that interaction\u2026and my concert will explore these ideas \u2013 they are pieces which somewhat resemble what\u2019s going on in the record but which are in constant evolution, every time I present or rehearse them they are adjusted and mutate over time.<\/p>\n

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And the space itself influences the way the pieces sound like \u2013 I remember, for instance, having had Erwan Keravec<\/a> play in Barreiro, and he was very happy with the natural reverberation and amplification of the church he played in\u2026How has your experience been like in playing in different spaces, do you also feel like it has had a big impact in the way you play?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Of course, it always does, not only in acoustic pieces but also in the ones I use the computer in\u2026the resonance of the space tends to make the pieces sound a bit better, I think, they might not work as well in a very dry space\u2026I could be forced to think of something else, but yes, the acoustics of the space are really important, it\u2019s something I always have to keep in mind every time I play, and in this case I\u2019ve already been to the library [the Municipal Library of Barreiro, where the show took place], to check it out and try playing there, and that ends up influencing what I\u2019ll present somewhat\u2026<\/p>\n

You were telling us how you\u2019re really interested in intensity a while back. I wanted to ask you about \u201cEstrada Longa\u201d [Long Road] \u2013 I was listening to it a few days ago and felt that it had something close to motorik, not so much in the rhythmic sense of krautrock, but as a certain propulsion and trance, not in an intense way, but conveying motion, and the bike ride\u2026Which is what inspired \u201cEstrada Longa\u201d, your trip on the N2 on a bike in the middle of the pandemic, right? Can you tell us a little about your trip, and how that influenced the record?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yeah, that was it. I made the trip on my own on a bicycle, and at the time I hadn\u2019t planned to make anything out of it, I simply started riding and seeing tonnes of place names that I liked, and so I decided on the first day to start recording the names of the places I passed through. Almost all of them, although I didn\u2019t do it constantly \u2013 first I\u2019d pass through a few, record it on my phone, then I\u2019d go a little further and record some more, and by the end of the trip I had almost 150 place names recorded, from Tr\u00e1s-os-Montes to the Algarve.<\/p>\n

Then I spent some time thinking about how to use that material. Those were phone recordings, and often I was pedalling as I recorded, so even though I thought they were interesting I couldn\u2019t quite get them to fit, and so I concluded that the raw material wouldn\u2019t be as interesting (even though I find that aspect interesting as well). What I ended up doing was to grab a pair of synthesizers I had at home and which I use often and which basically allow you to create a sort of patterns with a lot of instability and volatility due to the way they are connected, there\u2019s a cyclical aspect to it, but non-linear in a fashion, and I thought that the two things could be joined, so I created other patterns, one for each day of my trip, and I re-recorded the names of the places I passed through each day.<\/p>\n

And that\u2019s how the record came to be \u2013 as you mentioned, there\u2019s that cyclical aspect of the synthesizer, and I wanted to get a sense of monotony across as well, I was interested in that idea of long days, of never-ending but constantly mutating roads\u2026that\u2019s how the pieces emerged and they had that final result, the album. I\u2019m not sure if it makes sense to follow up with it, I think that work ended there, with that piece, which sometimes I think could have been longer: instead of 50 minutes it should be four hours long, but that\u2019s how it ended up like\u2026<\/p>\n

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The last question might be a bit of a silly one, but: how did you become the piper for Belenenses [a football club based in Bel\u00e9m, Lisbon]?<\/strong><\/p>\n

(laughs) My connection with Belenenses comes from my family, my grandfather and great-grandfather were from Bel\u00e9m, I\u2019m a supporter since I was born, etc\u2026The club was recently relegated to the last division, because of the conflicts with B-SAD, and the first time they played after that I decided to take the pipes with me. I had already spoken with some friends who were connected to the supporter group, and I started playing the club\u2019s anthem, everyone started singing in the stadium, and at the end of the day there were already videos on YouTube connecting that moment with an old tradition of the twenties, the Belenenses\u2019 fifteen minutes \u2013 supposedly the club made a series of comebacks in really important games that year, including a famous one against Benfica. And so for many years the supporters would make a lot of noise in the last fifteen minutes, I heard that with whistles and pans, and someone connected my playing to that tradition, so now during games, in the last 15 minutes, I play the anthem and some other supporter group (the F\u00faria Azul) songs, and it became something regular in the games. Now I feel that I have this responsibility, so every Sunday I\u2019m at the stadium with the bagpipes, there\u2019s two of us playing them right now actually\u2026so yeah, that\u2019s where the bagpipes-Belenenses connection came from.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s really cool. You weren\u2019t aware of that tradition yourself, were you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I did, my grandfather told me as a child, but it wasn\u2019t with the bagpipe you know, he just said that they used to make a lot of noise in the stands, or they\u2019d play a whistle three times, but meanwhile that completely died out, there\u2019s even books in the 60s of people connected to the club who mention that players didn\u2019t know what the Belenenses\u2019 fifteen minutes were anymore\u2026and that was in the 60s, in the 90s I\u2019d still hear a few whistles, but it was practically forgotten, and now it has some meaning again, it\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n